28 comments

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  Rod Uding

  1 year ago

  Well Josh, this would be a great way to start a numbering system if you have a new company. Here at BWCO we have a system on the AS400 for Mapics called ERS . This system is setup to automatically pull the next number when you type in the 1st three digits of the series. It makes it very difficult to keep similar parts together. Perhaps when we get the graphical verion of Mapics it will go away and we can get a numbering system setup similar to this.
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  Chris MacCormack

  1 year ago

  I agree with most of this.
  I like to keep the numbering plain jane serial numbering. With the big push to use Data Management solutions the need to keep everything organized with similar numbering or an other link is completely unnecessary with a good pdm system in place. A true Data base pdm system (not excel, note pad or access based) will maintain the proper links, referneces as well as provide a larger search forum using the file properties or meta data.
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  Josh

  1 year ago

  Thanks guys. It's hard to change numbering when you already have another system going. I get asked about this a lot, so I thought a good explanation would be good.
  
  Rod, I remember the days of trying to integrate with an AS400 system. We ended up not using it and had an internal PDM system. I hope you get the graphical version soon, but at least some of what you do is automated.
  
  Chris, you're so right. smart number and what I talk about below make it handy to find in a folder system. When you're using a well indexed database system, file names are not as important. The number on the drawing is important though and that is where it's a good idea to keep the part number dumb.
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  Devon T. Sowell

  1 year ago

  Hi Josh-
  
  I hate sequential numbers! Ah, I feel better now.
  
  I started out in the 1970's working for first the Suzuki Motorcycle Factory, then I went to work for the Honda Motorcycle Factory, then later Nissan. They all used "super intelligent numbers". I LOVE these types of numbers! BOMS!? We don't need no stinkin' BOMS! The Part Number IS the BOM. For example, these companies denote the Year, Make, Model, Sub-Model, Color, Material, Factory and REVISION right in the number. So, if I'm holding a Crankshaft in my hand and I know the type of car it belongs to, I can GUESS the correct Part Number close enough to find it right away. Conversly, If I see a Part Number, I KNOW the correct Year, Make, Model, SuB-Model, Color, Material, Factory and Revision.
  
  See, aren't these great?
  
  Who has more Part Numbers than Honda? Toyota? Yep, they use them too.
  
  Devon
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• 

  Francois

  3 months ago

  Hi Devon,
  
  Are those file name generated automatically based on the custom properties of the documents, or you have to do it manually? If they are done automatically could you give me the name of the software used to generate those file names. Because if they use the custom properties of the document to name the files then you do not have to worry about using the file in an other assembly, as you just have to change the custom properties to generate the new name. But this system only works if the file name is generated automatically.
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• 

  Josh

  1 year ago

  Devon, man, you're awesome. This is exactly the example I was looking for.
  
  I really hope what you’re describing becomes the exception to the above. A lot of company planning and certification departments are still driven by BOMs. What a pain! I’d love to have the model build and conform everything, but we’re all still putting stamps and signatures on paper.
  
  Ok,ok, here’s the example I use. a gear. If you give it a part number that has (your example) Year, Make, Model, etc., it can only be used for that year, make model, right? It’s great to handle inventory, but not so great for reusability. If I want to use that gear on another model, I need another number, even though it’s the same thing.
  
  A great way to have both is to use a dumb number for the paper and a property for the part, then ya got a reusable document and an easy to find part. That shiny gear can now be used here, here and here. I add a configuration to change the property and now I can use it there, there and there. Paper is documented; Shop guy can find the part. I think this goes toward like ya say, getting rid of BOMs, to the point the dumb number is just a unique identifier and data builds the part/assembly. Crazy talk?!
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• 

  J.D.

  1 year ago

  We do something similar as well, but we typically have only 30 parts in our final assemblies. I am starting fresh and for once luck got me on the right path. Most of our projects are similar where just sizes or lengths of items change, but they all still exist. We assign each job a project number, which is sequential, then add the year onto it. For instance our 31st job of this year gets a project number of 1312007. then I use that number in all the files:
  D-1312007-1r0.SLDDRW (drawing 1, revision 0)
  1312007-____.SLDASM (Final assembly)
  1312007-Tube Bundle.SLDASM (Sub assembly)
  1312007-Tube-Rtrn.SLDPRT (single Tube)
  1312007-Channel-Leg (one part of the frame which is used as a leg)
  1312007-...etc
  
  The trouble is starting a new job, I have to go in and manually rename all the files according to the new project. I need to find a Find Replace file renaming program.
  
  J.D.
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• 

  Devon T. Sowell

  1 year ago

  Hello J.D.-
  
  SolidWorks Explorer will copy a Project just like you need (with renaming), check it out.
  
  Devon
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• 

  Devon T. Sowell

  1 year ago

  Josh-
  
  RE Reusability;
  
  Parts can have more than one Part Number. Just rename all the supporting files to the new Part Number. This is the way Suzuki, Honda, and Nissan do it. So, Parts can have more than one Part Number, so what? Then in the supporting documents, just show the parts are equal.
  
  In my opinion, all the work either goes into the BOM (which by the way NEVER matches what's acutally being built) or the work goes into the Part Number, which has it's own intelligence built in, which takes the burden away from the BOM.
  
  Remember, in SolidWorks, the file name IS the Part Number (in the SolidWorks BOM, leverage this data!). This applies to SolidWorks, PDMWorks Workgroup, and PDMW Enterprise.
  
  Last year, I set up a medical device company using PDMWorks Workgroup and Agile. The Part Number with Revision is shown right in the file name.
  
  Great post, Josh.
  
  Devon
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• 

  Bruce Buck

  1 year ago

  Yikes! I'd be scared of the revision being part of the file name. Our parts undergo at LEAST 10 revisions before settling down. Some have even gone up to 75. Oh, the humanity!
  
  Still, going "BOM-less" would be nice, especially when your BOMs are all in AS400 and disconnected from all your other data.
  
  Oh, and your comment about product not being built with what's in the BOM... SO TRUE, so true....
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  Devon T. Sowell

  1 year ago

  Hi Bruce-
  
  If Honda, Suzuki, Nissan and Toyota aren't scared, then neither am I.
  
  Devon
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• 

  Josh

  1 year ago

  It is definitely a plus to see big guys like that using them. It would be nice to see all the different types of numbering system around and what commonality there is (if any) between them.
  
  I think we can all agree though that either way, the purpose of each is to have a unique number and an automated system to make it nice and easy. :)
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• 

  gale

  1 year ago

  And what about mirrored parts in assembly? If you want mirror in assy (in SolidWorks) you must write any pre or postfix to filename. This pre or post will affect your filname management.
  I am do it very offen and giving the filename postfix -M for example "filename-M.sldprt".
  
  How do you mirror parts and which name you give them?
  
  The tru disaster will come, when you are doing drawing for mirrored part. But this is differently discussion.
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• 

  Josh

  1 year ago

  Hi Gale, good point. I just give it another dash number. Whenever a new part is created it is automatically given the next dash number. So, if my last part is 000A001-510, the mirrored part I make is 000A001-511 and so on. When I need to detail a mirrored part in a drawing, I will usually only detail the original and reference the other as an opposite. So my drawing view title looks like this:
  
  ANGLE -510 (SHOWN)
  ANGLE -511 (OPPOSITE)
  
  Hope this helps!
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  gale

  1 year ago

  WOW, Yes you are right. I tryed now. Is new for me. Because I tought that I must! give the pre or postfix. Now I see that I can type any name of file what I want.
  
  Thanks for suggestion.
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• 

  Ollie

  1 year ago

  Josh:
  After slugging the numbers game out for about 10 years as a consultant, and having figured some of this out myself, I agree wholeheartedly with where your comming from. It makes a lot of sense and makes a numbering system much quicker to sort and locate drawings, models and assemblies. Dont take the flack the hardliners give you I played the game in aircraft for 35 years and none of the large frame boys have it figured out as simply as this.
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• 

  aWhatmough

  1 year ago

  SolidWorks Explorer is Great for changing and moving files.
  
  Also, I am sure everyone knows that you never want two files with the same name. SolidWorks will get smart when you go to open the assembly or drawing and make a mess of things.
  
  So, Never name a part just base plate, that is what the description is for.
  
  Al
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  Rollin Shultz

  1 year ago

  I definitely agree on using smart numbers. I think everyone must taylor their numbering system to the type of work they do.
  
  How we name our files can make a big difference when it comes to figuring out what is what.
  Should a filename just be a part number, or should it be more descriptive which will give you more options for searching folders?
  
  Do you want to work on an assembly in which the parts are just sequential numbers especially if you are trying to fix something left by a predecessor who may have not been following best practices?
  
  Will the part number/filename affect the way you must model your parts? How will it affect configurations? Will you be able to use design tables? (one part many configs)
  
  Do you really need different part numbers to use the same part in different projects?
  Does your part numbering system allow you to use all of the power built into SW or must you work around it?
  
  When it comes to engineering I am a big fan of two things Reuse and modularity. I don't see a seqential numbering system being intuitive to either of my two most base of tenets.
  
  If we are not going to build intuitiveness into the numbering system then why bother to use expensive and complicated software to model it all when we good use napkins and crayons and a wooden file cabinet.
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• 

  Josh

  1 year ago

  Example:
  I use Picasa to manage my photos (it's like a PDM for photos) My camera gives the photo an automatic sequential number. I download the photos into Picasa and add meta-data (tags, captions, etc.) that i need. I use Picas to search and find my photos. If there's something that references that photo (Re-uses it) I don't have to worry about the description not being relevant. I can add a tag or something to the caption. This is the most basic example I can give, but becomes even more important when thousands of documents potentially reference each other.
  
  Now I don't totally disagree with using smart numbers/descriptions. Things in the feature manager should be renamed. This definitely helps those picking up the work of others. And if you look at my documents folder at home, every folder has a description so I can find things easily. But it's only because I have no automated way of organizing it, like my photos.
  
  My number one suggestion, is to create that smart number as an attribute (property) instead of making it something that fully defines the component.
  
  Just to finish, the only time I think smart numbers or descriptions should be used is if you have no way to manage the data or if you have to find things in a wooden file cabinet. :) Then it makes more sense to use smart number so you can go to them quickly.
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• 

  Dave

  1 year ago

  I'm all about non intelligent, non sequential, numeric only part numbers with a structured description and meaningful properties.
  
  We had some very smart fellas create an intelligent part numbering system when we were just starting out. They claimed to be able to know where a part was stored, where it was used and the type of part it was by the part number. They also included the revision level in the part number.
  
  One year later, I am still fighting the system in an attempt at bringing it into our ERP system. The part number are broken into a project code, part type code and a sequential number. AA-PP-XXX would identify a purchased part for the AA project. What if we use the same part in the AE project? Two part numbers is confusing and using an AA part number in an AE project renders the intelligence useless.
  
  We also have item types of PT(power train) and CH(Chassis), but some of these items can be purchased parts, so there is additional ambiguity there.
  
  The idea of putting the rev in the part number has its own issues. Documentation was created using this method and now many of the parts are revised, the documentation is obsolete. It can also cause issues with vendors when you change the part number as a consequence of revision. Most ERP/MRP systems have fields for part number and revision, but rolling the rev as part of the part number creates a new item. Our laser cutter wanted to ding us on set-up for each new revision, as it required them to set-up a new item each time. Revision history is also difficult to manage when the part number changes.
  
  One place I do use suffixes is for different states of WIP. -80 for a flat pattern sheet metal component, -40 for a bent sheet metal component that requires anodizing, -45 for a component that requires powder coating and no suffix for the completed component. This allows a different value for each stage of completion to be assigned to inventory.
  
  If a person comes to me with a motor mount bracket and no PN, I would search descriptions for "Bracket, Mount, Motor" with properties relating to material and finish. The search would yield limited matches and I can pull up drawings for the likely matches with a mouse click.
  
  Yeah, there is the woman at Honda that knows every item number and what that item is by the number. It took her 30 years to learn it and I'm sure she'd have an aneurysm if that system were to change. I'd rather have a system that can be taught in less than an hour, without the ambiguity.
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  Rollin

  1 year ago

  At my present company we are switching over to a non-significant numbering system. There are 12 digits and evidently for now all are in a single folder. Although I am appending descriptions to the part numbers for the filename. I still have no desire to open a folder and see only a string of numbers. I feel these numbers should be stored in a spreadsheet and then we will need to depend on due diligence from all who assign them as to having them entered in immediately when they are assigned.
  In answer to Dave and the "woman at Honda"; a good smart number system is category / subassembly driven and can be learned in 10 minutes.Of those parts many will be reused in many projects and do not need to change in any way for reuse. You can append descriptions such as project name for project unique parts. If you include the project in the smart number you can increase the number of available numbers by quite a lot.
  Still there is the question of storage. Should we store all Solidworks files in one folder for easy searching (like PDM Works vault) or should we store all files in project specific folders and then use a tracking sheet for the part numbers.
  I must say it is very convenient to use the all files in one folder method when it comes to having a part open and using the create a new drawing menu option as a quick find for already created drawings made possible by having the parts and drawings in the same folder. Those damn lazy designers!
  One disadvantage of project specific folders is what happens when you decide to move parts from the project folder to become a "common" part etc. and Then you must hunt for the parts when you reload the assembly. This is usually an inherited problem from previous employees and bad habits.
  I am on the fence on the storage issue and welcome ANY comments on the topic.
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• 

  Josh

  1 year ago

  Hey Rollin, when I go over numbering systems with people, it always comes to one deciding factor. where's the component used. The first thing a lot of people want to do is put location or purpose in a number. suddenly it's used somewhere else and the number is now useless. it inherently becomes dumb as it's used for a different situation. Some make a duplicate part with a new number, but that's just bad practice, in my opinion.
  
  When you're finding things through a database, it doesn't matter so much how or where they are stored. Hence vault type systems. In a manual system folders are better and it's definitely possible to combine the two.
  
  Currently, we store each drawing and it's native files in their own folder. It was set up like this from the "file cabinet' mentality even though we find everything through a database search. It does help sort when working with a lot of different customers that you need to send documents to.
  
  Hope you find somethig that works well for your situation.
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  Don Hindman

  1 year ago

  I agree with most of your observations except eliminating the intelligent number altogether. What we did was to create the first part of the number with some important characteristics we know will be static. the balance of the number is used for uniqueness. In our industry no two trailers are alike yet the characteristics are. All we do is set up a set of families with values so the families are corraled. The last 3 digits create a unique number.
  As long as the fit form and function are common that new value can be added to the family. If not, then a new family is created. It works and the company I worked for before this one has used it successfully for over ten years.
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  William Russum

  1 year ago

  I find that in routine daily tasks intelligent part numbers help. I have spent hours locating fasteners at companies which apply random numbers to fasteners.
  
  I have spent too much time locating things like fasteners. If I can save a great amount of time location 30 or 100 fasteners needed for an assembly.
  
  If I need a 10-32 socket head cap screw 5/8" long in stainless then, I just go to the rack and locate the part number 1032SHC10-SS. 10-32 is size, shc is code for type, 10 is length in 16ths, and -SS is stainless steel.
  
  I have spent hours locating fasteners at companies which apply random numbers to fasteners. Now it only takes minutes.
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  Bill Bredlow

  1 year ago

  Josh,
  
  I disagree with only on part of your article. Smart numbers did not work well in the days of file cabinets. The countless hours wasted in meetings attemping to define numbering conventions that never worked. Had I only spent those hours sailing!
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  Josh

  1 year ago

  Hi Bill, file cabinet organization is a nightmare huh. One company I worked with used binders instead. We had shelves of binders. 1 HUGE binder for each projects, (with a smart number of course so you could tell what it was by looking at it.) but then we had to use one part from one binder in another... oh man.
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  Daniel

  12 months ago

  I read similar article also named rt Numbers are Dumb: SolidWorks Guidelines for File Names | SolidSmack - SolidWorks 3D CAD Technology Design Blog, and it was completely different. Personally, I agree with you more, because this article makes a little bit more sense for me
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• 

  chewie

  3 months ago

  I agree with Josh when it comes to naming SolidWorks files under directory 0280A001 but how do we add revision number? Will it be all under another directory 0280A001_01 (01 as revision 1) with Part as 0280A001-100_01or the revised file under a new directory Rev-01? Please advise. Thanks
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