DISQUS

chriswilliams · 1 year ago

There should be no surprise that 2d is alive and well. This by no means says anything about the value of 3d. Like someone pointed out, 3d or CAD gives you the ability to then manufacture. Although the outside of a product might be swoopy and sexy the inside is all about function - bosses to hold boards and batteries, ribs for support, etc…
What is surprising to me is that the list is missing scrap paper, napkins, email (maybe guess MS Office covers this), whiteboards and just plain old discussions. Tools like CAD and 2d sketch tools allow the expression of ideas. Before you can model/sketch you need to conceptualize something in your head. The modeling/sketching tool gives you a way to express the idea. Conceptualization happens through freeform discussion with rapid tools like a napkin. Weather your jotting down a list of requirements or capturing a notion of form, the napkin is the core of the design process.

Josh M · 1 year ago

I agree chris. the only thing i see bridging the gap of the napkin ideation process is something like I(heart)sketch technology that brings this into the digital realm. but ya won't always have that available. nonetheless, seems like a big gap in the concept/sketching realm that hasn't gone digital yet. not sure I'd want it to actually.

ChrisWilliams · 1 year ago

Not sure I see any value in making a digital sketch. I guess if it made it faster or easier then fine, but these are user defined values. What I mean is it is up to the user. There is MUCH MORE beyond sketching in the design process. What about all the little conversations that we have that help me decide what to sketch? What about the ideation we do together discussing texture, for example???

My list above constitute the tools people use to decide what to sketch or model. These tools are the real design tools and it is these tools that hold the real IP of a product. Yes the model has all the manufacturing data to replicate the item, but it tells you nothing about how you got there.

Josh M · 1 year ago

Hey Chris, I know what you mean. I get together with my brothers and it's all streams of conversations and pencil drawings, not 3d model.

did you see that video that came out of Autodesk university about the sketch technology? kinda like I(heart)sketch but wow, looks much more sketch like. now that looks like fun, but still, I won't be dragging it to the cafe, not yet anyway. :)

MatthewWest · 1 year ago

I think I'm going to start referring to all you CAD jockeys as Nurbs.

al dean · 1 year ago

Now then Mr. West, one thing you can't do is use NURBS as a plural.. Seriously...

Don't...

Wait, what the hell is plural of NURBS? NURBSes, NURBII...ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH (as Al runs into a dark corner, recalling a drunken argument with a former editor of Cadalyst about the correct pluralisation of Octopus).

Rod_Uding · 1 year ago

I like NURBII personally whether it is right or wrong. Sounds kinda mysterious. ex: Lo, I am the King of the NURBII.

Rod_Uding · 1 year ago

Sounds like the start of new catch phrase/moniker possibly.

Josh M · 1 year ago

A comment with a great point I received via email:

"You have to put this survey into a proper perspective. It was culled from job listings and not from actual job usage.

How many times has a designer or engineer landed in a new job position that lacked the tools that either he/she was skilled at using or that suddenly became necessary for the job's completion? This list reflects what employers, managers, even human relations people are imagining what the job might require. This could be based on what is alreadily available, affordable, compatible or expected. It does not reflect changes to the design process that could occur as the employee develops with the company.

Just to be clear, SW is not 3rd, its the most popular 3d cad software program. The 2 programs above it are mainly used for 2d development. Comparing them against each other is unfair, for they serve different needs, produce different results and are used in conjunction with each other."

Josh M · 1 year ago

This list is obviously not a comparison or saying that SolidWorks is the 3rd most popular 3D program. It's saying SolidWorks is the 3rd most sought after experience by companies hiring industrial designers.

It's my hope this study is looked at a little closer. I think both disciplines gain improvements when the same CAD packaged is used throughout the design/engineering process.

Jason Morris · 9 months ago

Exactly, this is just from job listings, which are easy to review and research. But it has been confirmed by many designers in industry today. My former design firm (tool.) went from pen sketch, scanned it in, and either rendered it in Illustrator/Photoshop or went straight to Solidworks/ProE. This depended on the client's software and the project deliverables. Today, they skip the scanning phase (which can be time consuming if you have 80 pages to scan) and sketch digitally with a Cintiq. When you are consulting, you do what you can to save time.

al dean · 1 year ago

I love your guy/gal's email.. very true - I guess what's interesting is that while many of the vendors are espousing how much 3D can do for product development and industrial design, it always seems to come back down to starting with 2D sketching - something that's not going to go away, not going to disappear from the toolset and skillset of the industrial designer.. as a good friend and advisor of mine said to me over a rather boozey lunch - " the problem with using 3D as a design tool at the very front end of the design process is that clients tend to think, when seeing a 3D model, is that the design is finished, complete and ready to go to tooling"...

Chris O · 1 year ago

Exactly... when people look at a 3D model, they start paying attention to details that you may have not actually put effort into yet. It presents the idea at a level of detail that let's people judge what hasn't been refined yet. In a sketch, you can leave the details out or fill an area of complexity with noise to suggest that something's going on, but it hasn't been resolved yet. I've been hit by this in school... I'll start on the 3D model and I'm instantly judged on aspects of the design that I haven't even thought of yet.

Of course, I think 3D tools can still be used in sketching for underlays and perspective guides. But it's strange that once you present a computer rendering at any level, it's assume that every detail is open for discussion, and that doesn't seem to happen with sketches.

Josh M · 1 year ago

I'd love to have visualization in SolidWorks that makes it look as if it were sketched out. There's a RealView texture that add 'sketchy' shading to the model, but I'm thinking something more illustrated. but man, that would take the fun out of the sketching.

al dean · 1 year ago

I wonder if this www.piranesi.co.uk would work? if you want that terrible watercolour look that architects just seem to love to bits..

Josh M · 1 year ago

oooo, that is pretty cool, but yeah a little watercolory. I was thinkin' something like Penguin for Rhino, but something that, ya know, extends the sketch lines, sorta ghosts or bluelines them.

Chris O · 1 year ago

That's one thing I'm excited about with the new Sketchup. It has a TON of display styles that make things look hand drawn, and it's very convincing.

But like you said, nothing will replace real sketching.

Josh M · 1 year ago

awesome. yeah, the design starts in the head. the 3d is the visualization of it all. I love starting with sketches. and ya know, I love a cool rendering as much as the next person, but seeing some really nice conceptualization with sketches, especially showing it as part of the WHOLE process, that adds another dimension right there.

al dean · 1 year ago

I'm wondering if www.fistfullamagicmarkersandfrenchcurves.com is available?

Rod_Uding · 1 year ago

You have gone comment crazy on this post. Splash some cold water on your face.

Rod_Uding · 1 year ago

So true Al. A lot of our designs at Barry-Wehmiller start off with a rough sketch on 99% of the assemblies and parts on my paper pad.

Now some designs I have made by dropping in existing parts to a new assembly, rough position them and start modifying stuff to fit on the fly.

Rod_Uding · 1 year ago

I love how AutoCAD and Inventor are at the bottom of the heap. (snicker, snicker)

sorry · 1 year ago

"There are hundreds [...]" not "There's hundreds [...]."

Josh M · 1 year ago

thanks. that's my most common grammar mistake. *hanging head in shame*

JP · 1 year ago

I am surprised to see that nobody mentions Cobalt by Ashlar?
I am just starting to look into 3d software and have worked with Vellum for many years, alongside with actual modelmaking. I am sure many others did as well.
Is Cobalt completely outdated today - or is it just overlooked?