SolidSmack - Latest Comments in SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

peak — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 04:30:47 -0000

Hey no clues for why all CAD developers are moving to the ribbon bar system, but now as I am using all the latest versions, I feel less of confusion while working, but do get bored of watching the same UI. But for your IGES problem, I feel you should SpaceClaim. Try if it solves your problem, I am still evaluating it as I find it interesting having common enviroment for CAD and CAE. will surely wait for your reply, to know if you find any loop hole or drawbacks of any of these softwares

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

nea — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:30:43 -0000

_jaro is absolutely right. It is a few moments to get used to it, but than .. you never want to go back from the ribbon anymore. I absolutely love the ribbon :-)

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

_jaro — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:47:04 -0000

Tne new ribbon bar is the next step in the UI development and it is fantastic. Yes, I am an old time user and I was confused for a second, but when I saw Office 2007 for the first time, I wishes for new new interface for all of the applications and know it is happening. Thanks a lot.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

azonicbruce — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:46:55 -0000

Well, going against the grain here. I too like... well maybe better said don't dislike... the ribbon. I DON'T like the inefficiency of having to switch tabs, that I'll agree, but I do like having visual access to many commands that I might not otherwise think to use (talking about MS Office here), plus I love the pushpin for files I frequently need to open. And it does establish some consistency between programs.

Regarding SW, I like the fact that you can get around the tabs annoyance using the right-click menus, shortcut menus, and keyboard shortcuts. Once I started using the 08 (and Office 07), I really started to like it and adapt to it quickly.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

LP — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:54:39 -0000

Hi all

I came from the Solid Edge world. Has far has i am concern, i believe that the ribbon is a good thing.

The ribbon is fully licence from Microsoft. I believe the developper didn't tweak or make their own ribbon like others.

Has everyone know SEwST introduce non linear modeling paradigm in it's product line.

This new workflow in ST fit nicely with the ribbon philosophy. The logic grouping of function folow a good workflow / best practice. That does not mean that the fluent interface is perfect. Few nice addition could be welcome.

I also believe this stay in the tradition of our interface philosophy.

Matt..... i once post on your web site link to article about SE interface (now i could say the old one :):):)) look back at our blog article regarding interface

On the Edge: Stream XP, Part 1 of 3
On the Edge: Stream XP, Part 2 of 3
On the Edge: Stream XP, Part 3 of 3

I am not THE refenrence when it come time to SW but from what i have see it seem that the SW developper use the ribbon concept instead of licensing it and throw function at it on top of each other.

I really see different philosophy between SE and SW and IV even if first look seem to give the impression of the same ribbon.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

joshmings — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:46:28 -0000

For sure Al, I don't think it is the best UI. I like accessing commands in the work area. After using 2008 I started wishing programs like Photoshop had a shortcut bar for commands I don't use via the keyboard. I like that SolidWorks went this way. I use SolidWorks mostly, so that may sound biased, but I also use Word and Excel and there is a difference in workflow.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

joshmings — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:41:32 -0000

"...it is easier to scan a single row of related information."

that pretty much sums it up Matt.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

Marijn — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:02:03 -0000

The ribbon gives more information faster and it is faster accessible so I really loves it and you aint seing me on office 2003 ever again i rather use open office then office 2003.
And the normal oldskool drop down menu's are here since 1983 it is the first and only graphic interface windows ever had. So that they finally reviewed it is pretty damn good :).

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

Rod_Uding — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:53:58 -0000

Good catch on my loss of thinking on 2009. Atter getting a couple of emails asking for beta testers you think I could remember that. I may have something to do with working 7 days a week for the last month and a half.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

Matt Lombard — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:28:38 -0000

I doubt it's "market driven". The "market" isn't asking for ribbons. It's just developer trends (fads), and the assumption that "newer" means "better".

I have yet to see anyone who says they like it actually quantify why they like it with specific details. The reason I don't like it is because it is easier to scan a single row of related information (icons on a toolbar) than a 2D patch of mixed text and image data of different sizes. I suspect the concept was developed from tag clouds, where words are assembled in no special spacial order, but given size prominence, and your eye is drawn to the largest items first. Making the largest ribbon icon the most commonly used is great unless you use something other than the most commonly used stuff.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

SWPriest — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:48:34 -0000

Insane indeed... I hardly wait an article about this...
There are many other problems with different SP’s than installing. For example did you noticed that “Close” and “Help” buttons on “What’s wrong” window displayed after an unsuccessful rebuild are in a position on SW2005 and switched between them on SW2006 and later?

Regarding project management: of course I have to set paths and folders for each project with access rules for each user and user groups.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

Asmodeus — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:38:33 -0000

I actually like the ribbon bar. Rather I've come to like it and have adopted it as my default. However, I'd rather like to see these cad programs optimize their codes to work better and faster instead of bloat to include these GUI's. It's rather pointless, but I suspect this is market driven crap.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

Mr D — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:29:15 -0000

I switched from Office 07 back to Office 2003 because I hated the ribbon so much, so I hope any company using it leaves the option to disable it. They're crazy if they don't!!! At 1900 by 1200 do I really need tabs? Absolutely NOT. Don't waste my time making me look for hidden buttons, since when did hiding things make sense.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

Matt Lombard — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:10:59 -0000

I have some customers with "special needs", and some with no CAD at all. So I get to pick what I use if they don't have any CAD or if their suppliers aren't using SW. I get sub-subcontracted sometimes and the end customer is very far away, and harder to stare down.

I have one customer who doesn't have SW, but he has suppliers that have it, and some suppliers have 07, some 08 and some I have to give IGES files, so I do several different outputs for this one guy.

Since most of what I do is individual parts, I don't have a lot of really problematic file management situations. I actually just use good ol' Windows Explorer with searches and sorts by date. My customers typically have no PDM, so I have to send them files with dates in the names to serve as file mgt.

I know I preach against this method, but this works for me because the vast majority of my parts have no external relations.

As far as installations, all of the software works well together, except for sometimes. When I installed a recent alpha version, it hosed my 07 and 08 installations on one computer. Usually different versions play nicely together, and can even be run simultaneously.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

Matt Lombard — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:59:30 -0000

Rod,

Since 2009 is still in Beta and thus under NDA, I can't really comment on it either.

Although hypothetically speaking, if 2009 has any interface at all, since Jeff Ray said his idea of a perfect interface was a blank screen ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3sRBDDryOI ), IF SW still has an interface in 09, I could neither confirm nor deny that it is a big breath of fresh air.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

Ivan — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:44:00 -0000

I've always hated the ribbon bar... even in MS Office. Love using the shortcut bar and many keyboard shortcuts for SW.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

Rod_Uding — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:41:55 -0000

Since we have not upgraded to SW 2008 or 2009 yet, I cannot comment on the new interface yet. Seeing the screen shots of the new "Ribbon" interface adopted by the other vendors, it does seem to be trying to cram way more stuff into a small area than is desirable. I do like the suggestion of two (2) Command Managers.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

burhop — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:16:34 -0000

Just wanted to point out that NX is on Linux now and I recall some discussion about CATIA doing this as well (Maybe one of the Dassault folks can say?)

Also, NX and CATIA went in a different way with their UI. NX is very customizable. Here is a link for NX5 although it may be a bit out-of-date since NX6 was released
http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/cam...

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

joshmings — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:07:50 -0000

managing SP's!? good night man. that sounds insane. no doubt you have a headache. I would at least keep different versions on different computers for that kind of rowdiness. If you can't... I would make sure you have different libraries and 'in work' directories for each.

Long term projects do not seem considered by software companies much huh? It would be the last thing on my mind in development. It may be good for businesses to factor software and hardware changes/upgrades into the job so that it doesn't impact schedule. That's is a really good topic, perhaps for another time.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

SWPriest — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:04:32 -0000

No Matt, they are different customers, each working on its own or customized PDM.
With some we use a thin web client to reach their PDM and basically we work with their servers. Each has its own spec and standard for models, assemblies and drawings and I have to set Design Checker, start parts, paths to symbols, notes, color swatches, etc, etc. I've found an excel table with macros on web to get and set all SW hidden params, but this work only for one SP. I have to play with registries and that's really painful, because I am Mechanical Engineer, not an IT guru.
We work with many shared spreadsheets for projects management, but this is nit error free method.
Anyway, how do you manage to work with 07, 08, and 09 for projects? Do you have a tool, a method, a public secret :-)?

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

joshmings — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:59:02 -0000

I can neither confirm or deny it either :) That's a cool idea about dual managers. That would really help with the tab switching. Even though I don't prefer the command manager right now, I like testing it out and trying new workflows.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

joshmings — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:55:38 -0000

Good point Ocell. switching between software packages is easier if the commands are structured the same, but if the workflow in the program is different, I think it's better to have options. For example, I'm glad I can switch it off in SolidWorks and I'm glad I have the option of accessing a command directly on the screen with the Shortcut Bar.

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

Matt Lombard — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:42:11 -0000

Wow, different SPs? Your customer has stuff that specific? That's crazy.

I haven't worked with it for a few releases, but PDMWorkgroup can work with various versions, but you might get in trouble with SPs. I have no idea how you'd distinguish between files in different SPs other than a custom prop.

I use 07, 08 and 09 for projects, but I'm always on the latest SP of each.

Sounds like a nightmare. They don't let you cross any bridges on your drive home, do they?

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

SWPriest — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:14:38 -0000

Matt,
I jump over the fence.
You're right partially: I'm using a lot of macros to simplify my work but there are so many project types that I have to open sometimes too many toolbars. I prefer to "assemble" personalized toolbars instead of using CM although. But, when you have to work on long term projects (6-24 moths) I think a toolbar with many macros and assigned hotkeys is better than CM. Or if you spent more time on Excel configs and functions than on modeling CM is useless.

I would like to play with 08 and 09, but I already have headache because of using 05, 06, and 07 with different SP’s on the same PC... a real nightmare. This is off topic but how do you manage when you have to work on different projects, with different SW releases, on the same PC? I didn't find any PDM capable to work with SW2005 Off Pro SP3.1 and SP5.0, SW2006 Off Pro SP3.1 and SP4.1, SW2007 Off Pro SP1.0 and SP3.1 simultaneously. Any idea?

Re: SpaceClaim, SolidEdge, Inventor: User Interface A-Go-Go

tengle — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:52:11 -0000

SW2008 was a pain to use until I changed the S keyboard shortcut to Insert and mapped that to my spaceball.